Archived messages concerning the Cambridge Z88 laptop by Sir Clive Sinclair GEnie's Laptops Bulletin Board - Dec-87 to Dec-88 ========================= Dec 04, 1987 Sub: Cambridge Z88 ------------ Dec 04, 1987 C.FENN [Logon Logan] Well has anyone on this planet heard of the Cambridge Z88 by Sir Clive Si Sinclair? .........I'll let ya know how it works. ------------ Dec 05, 1987 NEIL.SMITH Is that the latest one he just introduced? Is it 8-bit still? Neil ------------ Dec 06, 1987 C.FENN [Logon Logan] 8-bit still? his last computer was based on the M68008 with multi-tasking OS This one (Z88) is Z80 based weighs less than two lbs and expandable to 3meg RAM or EPROM. You can burn in the EPROMs in ththe machine. I still don't know much about it but I will soon. ------------ Feb 23, 1988 MORTIMER [.^Dave^.] Logon Logan: "Computer Shopper" of March '88 has a review of the Cambridge Z88 commencing on page 24 and continuing on page 76. I'll glean some quotes from it for the benefit of us all, but the review is generally positive. T'was written by Stan Veit. Noting ... the Laptops way ... .^Dave^. ------------ Feb 24, 1988 MORTIMER [.^Dave^.] Highlights of Stan Veit's Z88 review: * Size: 8.25 x 11.5 x 1"; 2.16 lbs * Screen: Very readable purple on light blue; 8 x 100 [8 x 60 in text] * System: non-MS-DOS; proprietary; BBC Basic; V52 [no modem] * Firmware: a) Pipedream - an integrated system Spreadsheet, Word processor, and Data file programs b) Memory resident "popdowns" 1) Index - key to all else 2) Calculator - 10 memories and units conversion 3) Calendar - appointments & Pipedream's Diary 4) Clock - shows time while you're working 5) Alarm - set several, can include message or run program 6) Filer - Access filing sytem, store to RAM or EPROM 7) Panel - configure keyboard, filer, and interfaces 8) Import/Export - fast file transfer * Documentation is terrible * Technical support questionable * Probably will market for $500 Encapsulating .... the Laptops way ... .^Dave^. ------------ Mar 21, 1988 PCWHEELER [Phil] RE the Z88: I will be very interested in knowing where it can be procured. In some sense ( small and light) it may be an ideal machine -- but only as a PC peripheral -- since it seems not to have a parallel port. Looks like a great note taker for meetings due to quiet keyboard -- but does take a bit of getting use to the feel of! At one inch thick, it is half the thickness of a Model 100. Also appears to have a supertwist screen (100 col by 8 lines). INteresting... Phil ------------ Mar 24, 1988 PCWHEELER [Phil] Latest PC Mag (received yesterday, but not read) has a very negative review of the Z-88: p. 88, "Sir Clive's Latest Pipe Dream" (make that p. 85). A particular quote: "It's more like the doorstop of the 80's,.... a Yuppie toy ..... before flaming out in a closeout special from DAK". The built-in Basic is given a poor review. It is compatible with nothing. Apparently has a proprietary OS, ala the Model 100 (vs. CP/M). Says the size advantage is limited -- since you will have to carry around the one lb manual with the computer. Etc. This view is quite different than view of the Computer Shopper reviewer. My conclusion is that it is a special use machine -- and the value must be compared top viable alternatives (like the Model 102 for tinyness and convenience and the Toshiba T-1000 for comaptibility in a larger size (6.3 lb. vs. 2 lb). All in what you want it for! But not a PC compatible or anything-compatible, it seems. Phil ------------ Mar 24, 1988 MORTIMER [.^Dave^.] Phil: Note that the "Pipe Dream" title of the review is taken from the Z-88's proprietary operating system. At the "REPly ?" prompt following this message[s] type 6 where you'll be reminded that the Cambridge Z-88's Basic is BBS Basic - not standard. Stan Veit liked the machine, but methinks as "special use" just as you commented. Perhaps in the same "special" category as the WorkSlate rather than the computers you cited. Commenting ... the Laptops way ... .^Dave^. ------------ Mar 24, 1988 PCWHEELER [Phil] Well, it does have a "toy Basic" he says. But some features are nice. Silent keyboard (very good for meetings). Reasonable screen. Thin and light. Ability to port files to 1-2-3 and Wordstar via RS-232 -- a big plus. Will be intriguing to see if there is a way to get into the M/l guts the way you all were eventually able to do with the ZP-150 and 600. And to find out what the OS *really* is. Potentially a useful tool -- and maybe a bit of an adventure! (there are all kinds of "adventures"!) Phil ------------ Mar 25, 1988 D.KOZINN [David] I got the impression that the silent keyboard would be good for meetings if you could type on it, which I'll bet is tough, from the description. ------------ Apr 02, 1988 C.FENN I've read the PC Mag bashing of the Z88 & all that is Sinclair, and I don't think it was very accurate. I myself own an MS-DOS portable (Datavue) a Tandy 200, and a Cambridge Z88, all of which I like. I don't think it would have mattered much which non MS-DOS machine Mr.Mannes decided to lambaste, he did not think it too important to get his facts straig straight. It was stated that the Z88 has a screen of 9 lines x 60 columns when it in fact has a screen of 8 lines x 106 columns. But then who's counting. It was also stated that the Z88 could be expanded up to 256K, when it can actually go to 3 MEG extra memory (in a 2 pounder) b which is a shade shade more than his precious MS-DOS. It was stated that the BASIC is "TOY" BASIC hmmmmmmm.... I don't know what constitutes a "TOY" BASIC, I know that BBC is similar to M/S BASIC and I have d/led programs off of GEnie & they have run just fine, BBC BASIC also supports procedures and in most benchmarks I've tried it's faster than a 4.77 mz PC. (David Ahl's old benchmark; the Z88 finished just before the PC but was much more accurate. I can also keep many BASIC programs ACTIVE at tha same time, hopping be between them with 2 keystrokes. When you turn the Z88 off it remembers everything in all programs(including variables),worksheets,documents right down to cursor position & CAPS. It is so forgiving you can even turn the Z88 off in the middle of a BASIC program and not miss a beat. I've not seen anyone fast enough to out type the display yet. As far as having to carry the manual with you is silly, if you can't use a Z88 you probably can't use a Bic lighter. It was mentioned that the Z88 demotes itself to the "notebook" role of the Tandy 100. He almost caught on there, didn't he? While I would not at all consider it a demotion, I think it is the market that Sir Clive Sinclair had in mind. I don't think the Z88 should be considered a special purpose type machine like the Workslate, as it really does many things well. Which probably prompted the direct comparison to the MS-DOS machines. As I stated in my reply letter to PC magazine; why in the world would I want to lug 7-20 lbs. of MS-DOS(not including extra power packs) just to write letters,print invoices or balance my checkbook? Who would want to do their daily scheduleing on a computer that demands to be booted up before you could see if you were late for an appointment? If you have to maintain larger databases or worksheets on your portable then the MS-DOS portables are the best bet, if you need a very flexible machine for many jobs on the fly then the Z88 is well worth consideration. P.S. Mr. Manes failed to mention the Z88 was not used to process any of the scenes in "The Last Starfighter" and it wont run UNIX either. ------------ Apr 02, 1988 MORTIMER [.^Dave^.] C.F.: Very, very useful information! I'm sure that could be a BIG help to those folks that are considering the adoption of a Cambridge. Do you happen to know for sure where they're available here? Listening ... the Laptops way ... .^Dave^. ------------ Apr 02, 1988 C.FENN The Z88 is available from: Sharp's Inc Rt. 10 Box 459 Mechanicsville,VA 23111 804-746-1664 The current price is $479 plus shipping. 512 K RAM cartridges should be here within a couple weeks, and I understand disk drives will follow directly. ------------ Apr 02, 1988 PCWHEELER [Phil] Thanks for the info, C.F. I'd pretty much decided to get one "on spec" despite the negative review. Glad to hear you are happy with the Z-88. I think it will fit some of my needs -- and no computer meets all of them. Phil ------------ Apr 03, 1988 C.FENN Wowdy, I've uploaded a file to the Tandy 600 & others sig that is a list of the BASIC commands in the Z88. I think you Assembly programmers might want to take a peek, as there are some things in there to accomodate you. I would like to get a concensus going to see if it does indeed appear to be a "TOY" BASIC. I've also U/Led a small BASIC toolbox just incase I'm not the only one with a Z88 (Ha!) Well it is nice to share information with open ears(eyes?) & open minds. The files I've put up are: Z88BAS.TXT file #1838 and Z88TOOLS.CLI #1839 Until next time, LOGON LOGAN ------------ Apr 03, 1988 PCWHEELER [Phil] Tks for the info, L.L. I will go gobble 'em up. I am very interested in that machine, so info is a big plus. Noted the source in VA. You might also add comments on o Comm capabilities -- phone, and via RS-232 to PC or other machine o Software -- does it use only ROM stuff, or does it run an OS such as CP/M? o How much RAM have you got so far? Volatile and non-volitile? o Printer interface -- do you print from it or transfer to PC? o M/L capabilites -- but maybe that will come from reading the new files! o Warranty -- Any? o Anything else -- looks like you are the first on our block!! Phil ------------ May 01, 1988 C.FENN I've uploaded a file to #9 library Tandy 600 & "OTHERS" #1892 & 1893, it's a conversion of "WIZARD" a text adventure. It will run on the Cambridge Z88. You will need extra RAM to run it. Enjoy, C.FENN ------------ May 02, 1988 MORTIMER [.^Dave^.] Logon: Just publishicated your WIZARD adaptation; I'm tickled at the manner in which you're going about proving that the Cambridge is to be taken seriously and that BBC Basic is not "just a toy." Found it very interesting that BBC Basic accepts the DEFFN statement with all that it implies. Very nice indeed! Cambridging ... the Laptops way ... .^Dave^. ------------ May 03, 1988 C.FENN The DEFFN statements loaded in exactly like the IBM versions, with no converting needed. There were a fewthings I had to convert like "LINE INPUT" to "INPUT LINE" but it was easy using the search & replace in the W/P. ------------ Aug 13, 1988 C.BOESEL2 Hi all. I've been thinking about getting myself a Z88 after I sell my M-102 Tandy laptop. I just uploaded a file to area #9 title "Z88.TXT". It is a s short description of the Z88. I gathered most of the information from the August '88 issue of BYTE magazine (they had a good review of the Z88 there also -- if your interested). My main consideration about the Z88 is I DON'T want to loose all of my BASIC programs that I use on the 102. Has anyone here used Tandy 100/102 or 200 BASIC programs on the Z88? If so, how did they run? What is the sound support like on the Z88 also? Thanks for any information you can share with me on this. ------------ Aug 13, 1988 C.FENN Howdy, I have run Tandy 100/102 programs nearly unconverted, for example the little AI program ELIZA loaded right in, I think all I had to do was to declare a couple variables at the beginning of the program. Commands such as VARPTR etc. will not work. Sound on the Z88 consists of a BEEP. I've found that many of the simpler MSBASIC programs will work with a little coaxing. I have a routine I go through editing the file from the Z88's WP "PIPEDREAM" using the search & replace,such as replace "LINE INPUT " with "INPUT LINE" and it will replace every occourance. Also there are no graphic commands in Z88 BASIC like you are used to on th the Tandy's. You can expect a considerable increase in execution speed on the Z88, it seems to be roughly almost as fast as MSBASIC on my clone at 4.77 MZ. Good luck, Chris ------------ Aug 16, 1988 C.BOESEL2 Thanks for that info C.F. I ordered the Z88 yesterday. I got the 512K of RAM and 128K EPROM. The Z88 seems to be the 102 that grew up. I'm sure it will fill most of my computing needs while on the go. S ------------ Sep 08, 1988 EZRA Is there any life left in this Z88 topic? Hello? I've got a couple of questions. . . . 1. Are there any decent books available on BBC Basic? I assume this is the same language as used on the Acorn, which would lead me to wonder if something has been published in the UK (though not stateside). Are there any Brits reading? And would any of you be willing to ship a book? 2. Are there any technical ref works available on the OZ OS? Like addresses and interrupts for the BIOS? Ports? Screen handling? Etc., etc., etc. How easy would it be to convert CP/M to OZ? 3. Has anyone developed a FORTH for the Z88? Seems a natural. . . . 4. Are there any third-party word processors on the market yet? I'd dearly love to be able to use the tab key for tabs, the return key to break lines, and so on. Thanks for any info! ------------ Sep 09, 1988 MORTIMER [.^Dave^.] Ezra: 1) You're correct that the only BBC Basic is from Britain, BUT it is reportedly of very little help. There are two books due out before the end of the year here in the United States. 2) Material on OZ is available, but since it is highly proprietary only on a case by case, question by question basis evidently. 3) FORTH is a possible, but uncertain at this point. 4) A third party word processor is reportedly in Beta test now. Patience else patients ... the Laptops way ... .^Dave^. ------------ Sep 29, 1988 ROMEOMARIANO Does anyone know what the pinouts are for the serial port of the Cambridge Z88? And is there a technical manual for it? ------------ Sep 29, 1988 ROMEOMARIANO I'm, trying to connect the Z88 to a Macintosh for file transfers while Sinclair works on the more formal software to accomplish it. The Z88 is also available through Curry Software in Glendale Arizona. They are having problems getting technical specs on it from their dis- tributer. Curry Computer supports all Sinclair machines. Their address is: P.O. Box 5607 Glendale, Arizona 85312-5607 Phone: 1-602-978-2902 I've ordered a Z88 with 128K RamPak and a serial cable for $595! ------------ Sep 30, 1988 EZRA The pinouts on the Z88 are apparently nonstandard; at least I wasn't able to connect any of the various Mac cables I have with any success. I broke down and got the modem/software/cable package from Cambridge, but I know you can get the cable alone. I connect to the Mac with a Mac-to-Hayes serial cable, a null modem, and a female- female gender changer plugged into the Z88 cable. If you want to build your own cable, pinouts for the Z88 are in Appendix B of the owner's manual. ------------ Oct 01, 1988 ROMEOMARIANO [Romeo M] Thanks. Apparently, the MAC to Z88 transfer and cable softwarecable and software, according to Curry Computer and Cambridge Direct , won't vbe available until sometime later this month or November. I don't want to wait that long so I might just construct my own cable. ------------ Oct 02, 1988 C.FENN I connect up routinely with my IBM (with PC LINK), but since I will soon be working with a MAC II I'll be very interested in connecting to a MAC. I'll have my hands full with the new MAC so I'll probably wait for the MAC LINK software. ------------ Oct 30, 1988 PWHEELER Just wondering what the latest status and comfort is with the Z-88. So I came in to read the latest messages. Not much new, it seems. I am curious just what the "minimal" configuration is. EPROM packs, RAM packs, etc. I assume the XMODEM program takes up one f the slots -- correct?? Phil ------------ Oct 31, 1988 EZRA I think all you'd need for a minimum config would be one additional 128K ram cartridge; you could get by without it, I guess, but you'd be as limited as with a Model 100. You also would need at least a serial cable, either purchased or homebrew as the pinouts don't seem to match anything else. My set up includes 2 128K packs, the Wordmongers comm pack, a serial cable, a pocket modem, and a null modem and a ender changer for dumping to other machines. I'm still trying to track down technical docs, a book on BBC basic, and other software for the machine. . . . ------------ Nov 04, 1988 PWHEELER Thanks for the info Ezra. I'm assuming that it may be your article that I read in the Byte mag this month. Have you tried the PC-Link? I assume it comes with some sort of cable. Is the comm pack the one they advertize for it (I assume so)? And what does it do? Autotdial? Is it in the MEX/MDM7XX paradigm? Phil ------------ Nov 04, 1988 CHESLEY I just got my Z88, and so immediately looked here for software to download... I have downloaded WIZZ88.CLI, and it appears that the file is not all there. I haven't actually tried loading it into the Z88 yet, but if you look around line 1850, you find: 1850N.A =109 1970Z%=FNA(8) There's another place later that looks suspicious. Has anyone tried downloading and running the file? By the way, thanks C.FENN for uploading the stuff that's there. ------------ Nov 05, 1988 PWHEELER Well, I just owned the ranks of the Z-88 owners (collecting laptops seems to be my hobby). First impressions: Keyboard is just fine, but you sure cannot rest your fingers on the keys!. Screen has very good contrast, but the letters are small (smaller than on my Toshiba 1000) and could be strenuous after a while. Opersting system has amazing integration with its pull down menus and such. Got the EPROM instead of a RAM instead by accident (bought it over the counter in Orange county) -- so I am ill a bit RAM poor (has about 20K with not apps suspended). Wordprocessor will take a bit of getting use to. I have yet to try my first transfer to a PC. Today I must go into the adapter business -- since I keep Toshiba 1000 (laplink) iterface bles in tow places with one for travel -- adn the pinouts are bizarre. Still need to get the xmodem software (which I assume supports autodial an so on; the built in stuff will let you do it, but all manually). Overall: Very well put together. A little spartan and software-wierd to become my primary lapper (the Toshiba 1000 will be that. BUT, this baby is SMALL. It will go places that the Model 100 and Tosh would not. And (unlike the 100) I can take it to meetings unobtrusively (quiet keyboard) and it looks like a professional device (M100's white and black seem to give it a bit of a toy-like nature). Wish list: An outline processor. A tech reference manual so I can develop some serioius software for it (access to ports, etc.). Wordstar in ROM for it (Hah!). Question: Is it possible to copy a program from one ROM to another? It seems that I could collect PC-Link and Xmodem on a single big EPROM (the one I didn't intend to buy!) along with some other things and free up a slot -- and have a backup. Has anyone looked into this? Phil ------------ Nov 05, 1988 PWHEELER Hmmm...lets see. Some interesting oddities/inconveniences. To get a Basic program into Pipedream to edit it, you have to capture it to a file. Turns out that file is in device RAM.- vs. RAM.0 or whatever RAM directory you have been using. That took me a while to figure out (thot the screen copy was not working). Question for the initiated: Is there any way to edit a file without xitting to Pipedream?? Apparently there is no EDIT command as n the Model 100. And the MS-DOS approach of listing the file and then editing on that screen does not work. Having to export to Pipedream to make timy changes looks to be a major inconvenience to a programmer; so I assume there is another scheme, and I just have not discovered it. What we need is a book on BBC Basic -- probably very available in England but not here! Phil ------------ Nov 05, 1988 MORTIMER Phil: Note message 27 above; should you find one, t'would appear that you should not waste money on the British manual for Basic but wait until the new manuals come out. RSN?? Postulating ... the Laptops way ... .^Dave^. ------------ Nov 05, 1988 PWHEELER Yes, Dave -- that's what I've heard. And (Murphy's Law) -- yesterday I drove half way to San Diego to buy my Z-88 (nearest dealer Cambridge Direct could locate who had one in stock). Of course, today the largest stationary in So. Calif is advertizing them in the L.A. Times! Went over there (abt a mile away) and they do have them on display (got them in last Wed). Not all bad, tho; I was able to buy (their last) 128K RAM module, an item that the other store did not have available. So now I have about 150K of RAM, 128K of EPROM and PC-Link aboard; when I travel PC-link will be changed out for Z- Link, the Wordmonger xmodem/term program. But that is now now available. Ummmm...I am extremely pleased with this beastie. A bit arcane, OS-wise but a heck of a lot of power in a small package. For my main intended use (very portable writing machine) it will be outstanding. Should work fine on line, too -- once I have an an-in comm package (the resident TERM capability is very rudimentary, makes the M100 TERM look like Crosstalk!). BTW -- in case I didn't mention, paid $499, vs. $479 quoted by Sharp's in VA and $599 (!) quoted by Cambridge Direct in Illinois. Worth the extra $20 (and tax) to see it before committing. Looks like I may be spending more time here now; sure don't know any other place where the Z-88 has ANY messages. But that may change; when the volume stores (like TAM's in L.A.) start selling it, it may just take off in user base. Phil ------------ Nov 05, 1988 C.FENN The non-editing condition in BASIC (aside from re typing a line) is a real annoyance, however the man that wrote the Z88 basic version apparently has written an editor that will work from BASIC. I think maybe they just flat ran out of ROM to put the editor. It was written by Richard Russell and I think it is offered as PD in England. Contact: Z88 Users' Club,68 Wellington St.,Long Eaton,Nottingham, NG10 4NG. I am going to re-upload WIZZ88.CLI as it does appear to be corrupted. ------------ Nov 06, 1988 PWHEELER C.F. -- Thanks for the info and the reply. OK, I was afraid that was the situation. It does looks feasible to work around it, once you have achieved more faciality with the Z-88 than I now have. The Z-88 is a pretty sophisticated beastie, and does have a bit of a learning curve. Heck, I don't even know yet whether it will support and run (via EXecute?) on-menu COM/BIN programs! Cearly it will from ROM, but .... Re PD programs: How are they distributed? Seems like EPROM or modem are about the only direct way. Phil ------------ Nov 06, 1988 CHESLEY One way to get around the problem with editing Basic is with a CLI file. I haven't tried it, but you should be able to write two CLI files, one that writes the current Basic file out, brings up PipeDream, and reads it in, and another that does the reverse. Since it's so easy to invoke CLI files from anywhere in the system, it should be pretty painless. My impression in general is that Basic isn't as well integrated as the rest of the system is. For instance, is there any way to give a Basic suspended process a "Your Ref." string? This would be invaluable for keeping several independent functions afloat at the same time. My vote for worst feature is the gyrations you have to go through to insert a carriage return in the middle of a paragraph (i.e., split two for one). With the M100, it's just hit the return key. With the Z88, it's control-ESL, down- arrow, control-N, down-arrow, control-R, up-arrow, up-arrow, up-arrow... (Or am I missing something?) There are plenty enough nice features that I'm still quite happy with my Z88, but I wish they'd gotten that one working better. ------------ Nov 06, 1988 EZRA Answering several messages at once: Yes, that *was* my column in the November issue of Byte that talks about the Z88, which is why (MORTIMER) I can't post a review here. . . . There will be technical docs coming on the Z88, but I don't know about sales/distribution. I'm in touch with the freelancer in the UK who is currently proofreading the manuscript, and I'm about to ship him a book he can't get there. So he'll owe me one. . . . As far as I can tell, the rom cartridges are somehow locked or otherwise copy-protected; I couldn't for the life of me figure out a way to push/pull the Wordmongers comm package out of its shell. . . . A friend in New York state claims the Z88 has xmodem built in, and that you don't need the link package except to strip the PipeDream peculiarities out of your files. Can anyone verify the xmodem? I haven't had time to check. . . . Phil-- what stationery store in LA has Z88's? Do they have carrying cases? And where in the sprawl are you? I'm in Hollywood. Are we the ad hoc southern cal Z88 users group? ------------ Nov 06, 1988 PWHEELER Ezra (and some general stuff) -- I'm in Torrance. Stationary store is TAM'S, per the ad in the Sat Times. Don't know about the case -- but I did get mine when I picked it up Friday (in Laguna Niguel!). A very nicely made case, by the way. There is no built in Xmodem, just an ascii (maybe extended ascii) transfer (get there with Alt X, Alt == box key). It shakes hands nicely with my FLTIBM for the PC (must be here in S/W libs somewhere). Only hooker is that you must go to Term to get the ^Z in sending out to PC -- and you get a little garbage stuff to be edited out th WS or whatever. This works fine at 9600 baud, by the way. PC-Link gives agonizingly slow treansfers; must be running at 300 baud from the look of it (it takes over control of the baud rate). But PC-Link does have the utilities for translating to/from WS and 1-2-3, so still worth buying. My thought was to get the Xmodem and PC-Link and whatever else into a single big EPROM and avoid having to change out. Alas, looks like t will not work. Very interested in any tech data. I am (slowly) looking at converting one of my M100 disassemblers (a BAS pgm) to run on the Z-88. That may give some insight -- tho I have never read Z-88 nmemonics all that well (8080 seems more "natural"). I've been following your stuff since my Kaypro II days; it died a tural death, and now I've moved onto bigger (and tinier!) things. Lack of Basic edit integration is a real pain -- and so is slowness of loading a CLI file from Filer. I wonder if COM/BIN files can be created. Just an obtuse reference to assembler to provide some hope. Maybe the forthcoming "Adv. Users Guide" or whatever will help! Phil ------------ Nov 07, 1988 PWHEELER Anyone know the syntax for the PEEK equivalent on the Z-88?? aapparently it is in teh VEC co9mmand but the manual gives inadequate info and I do do not have a BBC BAsic manual. ------------ Nov 07, 1988 PWHEELER My last message may have been garbaged by line noise. Gist of it was that, to convert a disassembler to the Z-88, I need to know how to do the equivalent of a PEEK. The manual is very obscure on this point. And I have been unable to obtain any other info on BBC Basic. Has anyone either seen or discovered the way to do a PEEK on the Z-88?? Phil ------------ Nov 07, 1988 PWHEELER BTW -- in an earlier message I suggested that the PC-Link xfers were slow due to low baud rate. Reading the PC-Link manual, it may be that handshaking is at the end of each character sent (!!). If so, that will surely slow things down a lot. Phil ------------ Nov 08, 1988 EZRA Tam's? Do you know if they've got a store closer in than Torrance? Or is the Torrance store close to a freeway? I didn't get the Times on Saturday; there's probably a list of stores in the region. Sigh. For what it's worth, the Wordmongers comm package sounds more effective than PC-Link, even though it only goes up to 1200 (not even 2400, grrr!). The PipeDream file format seems to be a lot of ASCII tags, so it isn't too hard to strip them out at the other end. However, I've simply been using the "save as text" command for anything I need to transfer. I don't do enough spreadsheet stuff to need the 1-2-3 conversion, and I haven't looked at the raw file to see how formulas and values are tagged. In either case, I don't think it would be too hard to whip up a basic program to do the bit-twiddling. Oh, for better docs on BBS Basic! ------------ Nov 08, 1988 PWHEELER There are a number of TAM'S around. I'd say about 20 in the area. I'm more interested in Wordmongers for real on-line work. Hopefully it solves some of the dumb term issues (like SHIFT-DEL for backspace!). Does WordMongers give a backscroll function? And Why on earth does it only go to 1200 baud (not probably an issue, tho). I did my first 1-2-3 conversions today (1-2-3 to PD); very nice. And the PD sheet was about half the size in bytes as the 1-2-3 file, which had been a concern. Also tried to put a PC .COM file in Z-88 and move it back. Transfer was fine, but some bytes were translated. Looks like all 1?h in the original became 2?h. Hmmmm..suspect more will be revealed. Re the BAsic editing problem via PD nad the CLI file: Iv'e found you can do a merge of sorts. Leave the 'NEW' out of the header in the CLI. Then it will leave all lines as is, excepty the ones yo want to read in. So with ASCII file in PD, just need to do a seleced lines same to MERGE.CLI and then execute MERGE.CLI in Filer. That way the program need loaded only once in totality. Disassembler mya be of little use. Lomem is about 8K+, and Himem at about 49K. With a 128K ROM, much of the system must be paged in and out -- making access to OS functions problematical. Really is a very closed architecture. I am very pleased with it overall, but the oddities are limiting. For my uses, super. But not for everyone. Phil ------------ Nov 09, 1988 C.FENN The equivelant command for PEEK would be VEC for VECTOR, I've been able to PEEK into the memory using this but I can't recall exactly the way it is used (big help huh?) lets see VEC=(address),hmmmmm.... ------------ Nov 09, 1988 C.FENN (PHIL) try this; VEC=0 FOR I=1 TO 131072(OR WHATEVER) ADDRESS=I ADDVAL=VEC?ADDRESS IF ADDVAL>32 OR ADDVAL<127 THEN PRINT CHR$(ADDVAL) NEXT I I hope this will help, LOGON LOGON ------------ Nov 13, 1988 PWHEELER Well, Chris. your VEC? syntax did not work for me. Differs from manual, in that they predefine the data via a DIM statement. I'm not sure whether VEC works more like a PEEK or a VARPTR. Still looking for a way to do a PEEK so I can look around inside the system. Of course (in the Tandy 600 / ZP-150 model) there may not be a way to do it! We really need a BBC Basic manual. CAlled the UK number in the Z-88 Owner's Guide. Nice lady said they are just writing it and that it will be available after Christmas!! Moving to the tune of a different drummer, it seems. Phil ------------ Nov 13, 1988 PWHEELER Problem with the Z-88 I've encountered a problem with my Z-88 which is related to design. There is no on-off switch. Instead, simultaneous press of the two SHIFT keys is used. Now put it in its carrying case and pop it into a briefcase or bag. Turns out that jostling can cause sequential on/off's and while on unpredictable theings can happen. Sometimes it is hard to get going when removed from the bag -- and then the PD file you were in can get grabage added two it (bunch of CR's). Solution is to cover the keyboard (or entire machine) with a hard surface. Carrying in a loose-leaf notebook is one way. Still very pleased with it, even with the "dumbness" in the design; e.g., WP amd Spreadsheet were designed by a hacker, not a user -- and some of the features, while clever, are pretty unfriendly. As a sign of my commitment I have ordered a 512K RAM pack ($370 at Sharp's in VA -- about $0.75 per KByte, not bad!). Phil ------------ Nov 13, 1988 PWHEELER Oops, Chris -- it DID work. I had omitted the VEC=0 command. Not sure why it is needed; maybe it just defines the variable, and the 0 is not significant. Now on to my disassembler project. Phil ------------ Nov 13, 1988 C.FENN Well it's off to COMDEX we go! as I live here in 'Vegas. Cambridge has a booth at the Riviera so we'll see what they have goin on. If anyone wants me to get info just let me know. (Pass the foot powder) ------------ Nov 13, 1988 PWHEELER Well, any info on a BBC BAsic book would be of interest. And what are their plans for a disk drive? l ------------ Nov 14, 1988 C.FENN I'll ask 'em. I think it's oficial that COMDEX means WINTER around here it was summertime here until yesterday, now it is winter. It went from high 70's low 80's to COLD! (even had to put the top up on my car after 2 months) anyway I walked around the main area at COMDEX for a couple hours before I headed to the Riv' to see Cambridge but when I got there I found they got a better spot in the East hall back in the main area. My legs refused to go back so I'll go there tomorrow.(if the Boss agrees) They are calling this one "The year of the Laptop" & they aren't ttoo far off. ------------ Nov 14, 1988 EZRA Please beat on 'em for some kind of access to PD programs (if there are any) here in the states. If someone were to send me a PC or a Mac disk, I'd even be willing to do the uploading. ------------ Nov 15, 1988 C.FENN Well Ezra, I couldn't seem to be able to talk to anyone but sales types. The booth was very busy (it's right next to ATARI). I did get to see the new MAC link which is pretty slick(I've got ver 1. PC LINK which is un-slick). But there is hope, Marc A. Giguere of Cambridge New England Inc. was kind enough to bring out a proof of the mythical AVANCED USER GUIDE, I was impressed with what I saw (in 30 seconds or less). I'm going back tomorrow & maybe I can find out more. Enjoyed your column in BYTE I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. ------------ Nov 15, 1988 PWHEELER I've just uploaded file #2338 to the libraries. Deals with how to use FLTIBM to archive your Z-88 files on the PC at 9600 baud. Now I will try to add it here! Use of FLTIBM with the Z-88 --------------------------- I've found that I can use FLTIBM on my PC to interface with my Z-88. Moreover, it really works great for archiving files! Run FLTIBM on your IBM compatible. And then use the Import/Export function on your Z-88. Be sure you have the Z- 88 set up for 9600 baud comm. <> To archive all the files in your current Z-88 directory, first set the PC up to receive by selecting the R)eceive option in the FLTIBM main menu. Use something like BACKUP.N15 (November 15th's backup) for the PC file name when asked. Then select S)end in the Z-88 and designate the file as *.*. All files in the Z-88 directory with extensions will be written out to the PC. Then repeat the S)end option with * as the file name; that will get all files without extensions. To end the transfer, go to the Terminal screen and hit CTRL-Z (Diamond-Z). To pull all files back into the Z-88, select the B)atch receive function in the Z-88 and use FLTIBM'S S)end function to send back BACKUP.N15 (which is one file to the PC but several to the Z-88). Quick and easy! You can go further and actually use the BACKUP file in the PC. First you must run it through a linefeed adder on the PC (e.g., PC-LF.EXE, file #834) to add LF's to the CR's. Then you can go into an ASCII editor and extract the files by blocks, removing the ESCape code file demarcations sent across by the Z-88. But this step is unnecessary if you only want to use the PC for backup and/or archiving your Z-88 files. Phil Wheeler Torrance, CA 15 Nov 1988 ------------ Nov 16, 1988 C.FENN I'll have to give it a try. I was back to COMDEX again today (my legs ttell me it's the last time I'm going this year). Cambridge was VERY busy today too. I never got to talk at length with anyone there to bring back any exciting info but I did get to chat with some interesting people that had many different uses for their Z88. I manage to invite everyone to visit our little outpost here on GEnie. So they at least know we are here. From the looks of it I'd say there's going to be alot more f of us before too long. Maybe collectively we can figure these flat little boxes out. ------------ Nov 17, 1988 C.FENN A national Z88 user group is forming and will publish a Z88 specific newsletter "The Pipeline" which is due out soon. Contact : CLUB Z88 29722 Hult Rd., Colton OR. 97017 ------------ Nov 19, 1988 CHESLEY My redownload of Wiz.bas works just fine. I've been reworking it to take advantage of the wider line width and upper/lower case. Mayhaps I'll upload the modified version if I ever get all the typos out of it (boy, I do wish I could edit Basic programs...). I got the Z88MacLink software the other day, and it seems to work quite well. It does straight transfers, and also converts to MacWrite and Works (spreadsheet) format. I haven't done a lot of conversions. The ones that I have done suggest that it doesn't do a perfect translation, especially with respect to tabs, but it does do a good job of preserving character styles (bold, underline, etc.). They describe the transfer protocol, and it makes me somewhat nervous that there doesn't seem to be any error checking in it. And, yes, it sends an acknowledge after each and every byte, which slows things down a bit. Definitely not XModem... I've been using the Z88 extensively as a calendar and notebook. So far so good. The only really major problem is that the word processor does not understand paragraphs, so reediting them is a pain (things like having to issue split commands instead of just typing a CR). Another way to look at that is that it sometimes behaves like a spreadsheet when you really want it to behave like a word processor. And it's REALLY nice to be able to play adventure while stuck in those really slow, boring, long meetings. ------------ Nov 19, 1988 CHESLEY P.S. A card giving a US company name and address for ordering options was included in my Z88 (don't recall the name off hand). I called and asked them about tech ref stuff, and they said it's coming but will still be a bit, and to write and request it and they'll put me on a list of people interested in technical docs. I did. ------------ Nov 19, 1988 PWHEELER You really do not need error checking at all! FLTIBM has none, operates at 9600 baud, and seems to work quite well. Unfortunately PC Link has too much handshaking -- slowing it down. But I';ve had good luck with the conversions -- tho I suspect I could do without the WS conversions, by using a PD program. 1-2-3 to PD converter IS needed, since 123 files are fundamentally binary. Phil ------------ Nov 22, 1988 EZRA So. . . Anyone have any idea yet if there *are* PD programs/utils for the Z88, and if so where to get them? It's the question I would have asked at Comdex, had I been there rather than in the hospital. Sigh. ------------ Nov 22, 1988 C.FENN It seems the only people I could talk to at the Cambridge booth were "SALES" oriented,they could dish out prices & delivery quotes but I couldn't scrounge much usefull info.(I guess that's what they were there for) G. Sorry to hear you had to spend time in the hospital instead of COMDEX(I did inquire about you at the BYTE booth) I'll try to get some info on PD stuff. Hang in there Ezra! ------------ Nov 23, 1988 PWHEELER I'm not aware of any PD utils. I would imagine there are in England. But then the only way to import is by Modem/Comm and Eprom. The latter is a bit difficult for PD sutff and the comm approach implies there is a local number. There are programs published in the newletter (Z88 EPROM) from England, but those are not exactly PD. And Chris has a big adventure game WIZARD in the Libs here. Of course, the real trick is to do M/L utils (maybe via USR's from BAS). But that implies knowledge of the ROM hooks. I understand the adv users uide (at a faily stiff price) may have some such info. In the interim, I do plan to do some things in Basic, just for fun -- and convert some stuff, as well. Now have a 512K RAM module installed, ch will help. Phil ------------ Nov 23, 1988 C.FENN I was told that the Advanced Users guide wouldn't cost a fortune. (but who knows?) Phil is the 512K cartridge you are using the only one in your Z88? I'm curious about power usage with a 128K & a 512K which I'd like to get soon. I think I could get by -w- the 1/2 Meg. & trade the 128k RAM for an EPROM. ------------ Nov 23, 1988 PWHEELER I now have only the 512K RAM in my machine -- plus two EProms, PC-Link and Z- Term (using it now). Z-Term is a mixed bag: Not as powerful as I would have expected (especially for the price). And I am having some problems getting the xmodem uploads to work, maybe because it is Checksum only. works fine for downloads -- an interesting situation! If Ezra reads this, I think he said something about having a comm ROM, so maybe he will be able toadvise me. Noinfo yet on power usage. But it may be less than the 128K takes, since the technology is likely more advanced. BTW -- I assume you get in here with ^R at the logon, to get the echo -- right, Chris? Phil ------------ Nov 24, 1988 PWHEELER To anyone who is interested: I've just uploaded a simple decision program to the Libraries -- #2349. It is an adaptation of a model 100 program of mine -- which I developed based on a BAS proggram in the CP/M world long ago. My purpose was to get some experience with programming this thing -- and come up with a "new" Z88 application. Curiously, I think this program (M100 version) was my first (of >400, now) submission in the model 100 world -- almost exactly 5 years ago, when Dave (aka Mortimer) was asst Sysop in another place. The world has turned a w time since then! Phil ------------ Nov 25, 1988 MORTIMER [.^Dave^.] Yes Phil; since you mention it, t'was five years ago yesterday that I first became an assistant sysop - as you may recall, the primary sysop thereupon disappeared! Remembering ... the Laptops way ... .^Dave^. ------------ Category 6, Topic 10 Message 75 Thu Nov 24, 1988 C.FENN I can certainly appreciate Phil jumping on the Z88 bandwagon, something here & something there & we might end up with a Z88 library right? I haven't yet purchased a COMM. program for my Z88 but I think thats next. Is ^R a Zterm thing? or something I've missed out on? ------------ Nov 25, 1988 PWHEELER Hmmmm... don't understand the ^R reference, Chris. I can't find it in my message, and I don't remember it being in the program. I'd better to make sure the glorious Z-term did not add it to the file! BTW -- just uploaded KEYCOD.Z88. Some interesting info for programmers on some key stroke results. Phil ------------ Nov 25, 1988 MORTIMER [.^Dave^.] Chris: In message 72 Phil's comment "I assume you get in here with ^R at the logon, to get the echo" refers to the procedure necessary with some telcom software that doesn't have a toggle for ECHO or Duplex operation. In that case, it may be necessary to place a CTRL-R in the logon sequence immediately after the U#= prompt and before your userid and password. Like: U#=^RXTX899991,SPACED,655 Explicating ... the Laptops way ... .^Dave^. ------------ Nov 25, 1988 C.FENN Ok,now I see. Does anyone know the output of the official Cambridge power supply? Would it be somewhere around 300 mA? ------------ Nov 25, 1988 PWHEELER 1. RE the pwoer supply: my manual says something about that. Now where?? Anyway, the Model 100 supplyis about right -- BUT the polarity is backwards - so I will reverse the cabling. So far I lam running on batteries, one of the neat features of this type of lapper vs. the Tosh. 2. I have just uploaded an ADDLF for the Z88. it will add linefeeds to a CLI or other text file prior to ulpoading here or to a PC. Without it, my Z- TERM uploads do not go down well for other machines. Aha -- My Z88 has an auxiliary sheet of instructions. Says 300-500ma rating, with inside of plug positive and outside negative. 6 volt adapter. Glad Dave got the ^R clue. Yes. I log on by hitting a CTRL R prior to snding the usual logon stuff. That givees me the echo in the Z88, whichfjdoes not have an internal echo toggle. Whew!! Phil ------------ Nov 26, 1988 C.FENN You guys keep it up, I'm taking notes! I didn't know about the ^R thing and now I have something new for my bag of tricks. I did just that too (Phil) I've been using my extra Tandy 200 power supply with the polarity flopped it's rated at 400 mA so it should be just right. ------------ Nov 27, 1988 CHESLEY PWHEELER: Where did you find out about *NAME? I looked all through the manual for how to name a Basic program (so I could tell them apart from the Index mode) and couldn't find anything. Re assembly language: I've now seen two references to an "in-line assembler" that's part of the Basic. The most enticing is in the Z88MacLink manual, where it talks about differences with Mac BBC Basic and says that one of the differences is the in-line assembler that the Z88 version has but the Mac version doesn't. ------------ Nov 27, 1988 C.FENN It wasn't until I bought the printer I/F that I learned how to output to the printer without having to toggle the printer on & off (square P). Anyway on the instruction sheet that's supplied with the I/F it shows the method to send selective output to the printer from BASIC. Here goes: 10 CH=OPENOUT(":PRT") 20 PRINT#CH,CHR$(5),"[" 30 PRINT#CH,"This is some text"+CHR$(10) 40 PRINT#CH,STR(PI)+CHR$(10) 50 PRINT#CH,CHR$(5),"]" 60 CLOSE#CH Also from FILER try cataloging with these names :*/ and :ROM.0//* ------------ Nov 28, 1988 PWHEELER Chesley -- Here are some commands which will work in BASIC *DELETE FILE.EXT or *ERASE FILE.EXT will kill FILE.EXT *NAME PROGRAM will show PROGRAM as the name in activities *CLI will execute a CLI sequence from Basic *RENAME FILE1.EXT FILE2.EXT will rename FILE1.EXT to FILE2.EXT I still have not found a DIR or FILES command which will work from Basic. The in-line assembler is real. Uses Z80 nemonics. Typical syntax is 100 P%=Z% 'Z a dimensioned integer array; sves memory for code 110 [ 120 OPT 2 'see manual, page 165 130 .ORG 'sets address for USR call 140 PUSH AF :LD A,(HL) 150 OUT (&BA),A : POP AF 160 RET 170 ] This is garbage code to illustrate the syntax -- and is based on a ROM dumping program published in the Z88 EPROM, an English user's group publication. It does work; I've modified the program for my own use and it seems to operate quite well. I have not done any "real" M/L programming because I don't yet dig Z80 nemonics and code (use 8085 mostly) -- and (very important) the system ROM calls are not published, sort of like not having BDOS call data in a PC, or ROM calls in the Model 100. Very tedious to do any significant M/L coding without that info! Phil ------------ Nov 30, 1988 EZRA Well, I'm back, sort of. Looks like another three or four days max on codeine and antibiotics and I'll be normal again. I've been scanning messages but the drugs have a tendency to fuzz out my brain. Might I humbly suggest either a topic devoted entirely to the Z88, or some new header messages? There's now enough message traffic to warrant it; it's getting pretty hairy to keep threads and replies straight. Dave??? ------------ Dec 01, 1988 MORTIMER [.^Dave^.] Ezra: On my agenda, within the week, has been the deletion of most of the messages in this Z88 topic after uploading them in Library 9 after some editing. Believe that, for now, one Topic can handle your needs but if you think it suitable, I've no problem with your STArting a topic devoted to Z88 programming [for instance] and another for telcom use. Have no plans in the forseeable future to open a Category for the Z88. Feedback from y'all? Seeking ... the Laptops way ... .^Dave^. ------------ Dec 01, 1988 C.FENN Great to have you back around Ezra I hope things are goin' better. Hmmmm... it's been about a year since I left my first message here, and at the time I never thought there would be this many (80 or so?) There may not be enough traffic yet to warrant our own catagory but I would certainly like to see one at some point in time. The bulk of the messages have been fairly recent so I think it may be the start of a trend. I think Cambridges marketing effort was a little slow out of the gate, but it seems like they may be building up a good head of steam. I think it can't be easy to introduce a new & innovative machine to a market dominated by such a flurry of DOS machines. In the other direction the Tandy family of laptops have been around for quite some time & some don't want to lose their Tandy security blanket. Anyway I think we'll be seeing more & more action around here. I'm game for a separate programming topic if thats the direction we're going in. ------------ Dec 01, 1988 PWHEELER I've just uploaded a MAXIT.BAS (MAXIT.Z88) for the Z88. Interesting game -- and it has some good examples of using and controlling the screen. Enjoy! Now looking into some other adaptations of some of the well-known and adapted programs from the olden days! Phil ------------ Dec 08, 1988 C.FENN Has anyone discovered how to use the OSCLI command? It sounds interesting but I can't figure it out. ------------ Dec 09, 1988 PWHEELER I've just uploaded FINANCE.Z88, financial analysis for the Z88. Seems to work OK. OSCLI = Op Sys Cmd Line Interpreter? I would use the syntax of the CLI cmds (e.g. per pp. 198-201 of manual). There was sometyhing on this in one of the Eprom newsletters. Hmmmm. Says *CLI #F will go to filer from Basic. Might try OSCLS #F and see if it will do the same. FYI -- FINANCE.Z88 is file #2397. Phil p.s. -- Thinking of starting a Laptops BBS here in L.A. I would then move my Model 100 and MS-DOS laptop software and support there -- and use it as a vehicle for support of the Z88. My 30 Meg hard disk will hold gobs of laptop software. And none of the commercial services show any interest in the Z88 orphan. Any thoughts, anyone?? ------------ Dec 10, 1988 C.FENN Phil, LA is not too far away for me to call, and it would be nice to have a better focal point than a sub topic in a generic catagory. I think it is important to have a place for people to exchange ideas etc. If you do decide to start a M100,DOS,Z88 BBS you can count on my support. ------------ Dec 11, 1988 PWHEELER Thanks for the input, Chris. Still in the thinking stages. But I once operated a PB R/CPM and enjoyed it. I've got the bug to Sysop again -- and it would provide focal support for the Z88. Will be interesting to see what the AZ group is going to do also. Maily, the tech data we get for the machine will really determine how much we can really develop useful applications. Need that data!! Phil s ------------ Dec 11, 1988 PWHEELER Just left D-H-D.Z88 in the Libraries. Hex-Dec-Hex number base conversion for the Z88. Phil ------------ Dec 14, 1988 EZRA I'd love to see a BBS here in LA; I'd even be willing to donate some hardware to the cause. I've got a Prometheus 1200 modem and a 2-floppy Compaq Portable gathering dust at the moment. But as a former sysop, heavily involved in the development of Fido, I'd strongly urge *against* any MSDOS activity whatsoever. As soon as word gets out (and it will) that you've got *any* MSDOS files to download, the downloaders will tie up the system and choke off activity in the message areas. ------------ Dec 14, 1988 PWHEELER You have a very good point re MS-DOS, Ezra. And there is enuff support for that crowd anyway. Of course, the quandry will be that with only Z-88 support, the user base at this time would be pretty small Maybe non-DOS lappers is the segment. BTW -- I am thinking of Fido as the host software (since I set up a private system that way a few years back. Any thoughts on that, pro or con? And thanks for the volunteer of harware. support!! Phil ------------ Dec 16, 1988 C.FENN We'll see ya there (Phil) ------------ Dec 16, 1988 PWHEELER Good! BTW -- expecting mucho Z88 tech data next week; more later (and longer msg at home!). Phil ------------ Dec 18, 1988 PWHEELER FLASH: I've pretty much got a BBS supporting the Z88 and other laptops set up. It will be a bit sparse of files for the time being, but that will improve over the holidays. Support and programs will be provided for the Z88, M100 (and family) PC lappers (laptop-specific stuff only) and CP/M lappers (less, since I don't yet have one). Main objective is support to Z88. Hours: Whenever I am not using the machine (Z-150 with 30 Meg HD) for emting else. BAud rates: 300/1200/2400 (but I have not tried 2400 yet). Location: Torrance, CA (L.A. Area) Phone: (213) 370-2754 Status: Open and free; will stay open if not abused. Active status started 12/15/88. Not many files. But it sure won't be crowded! Phil ------------ Dec 18, 1988 MORTIMER [.^Dave^.] Phil: Wanted to wish you and all the Cambridge Z88 devotees the very best on your new BBS venture. Over the past months I've been observing and counting the Z88 interest as measured by BB activity [very poor measure] and the download of Z88 program files. It would appear that there are three members of the Laptop RT with an active interest in the Z88. Keep in mind that every file submitted by members is downloaded by one or more of the sysops, so that increases the "Accessed" count accordingly. With your help, the Laptops RoundTable will continue to provide the support for the Z88 as best we can. For the moment, Topic and Library space is about all that we can offer. Trust you'll understand that there just is not enough activity to justify the cost of opening a Z88 specific Category and/or Library. The Tandy 200 and Hewlett-Packard 110 members [plus who?] could have at least as legitimate a claim for space. As you frolic in Torrance with Zee Z88 Zinging BBS we wish you the best and hope that you don't forget us amidst the frolicing. Encouragingly ... the Laptops way ... .^Dave^. ------------